Black Belt Banter: Martial Arts Business Podcast

#12 | The Secret Behind the Highest Tuition in America

• Jimmy Hong • Season 1 • Episode 12

Share episode

Send us a text

Ever wondered how some martial arts schools command $400+ monthly tuition while others struggle to break $150? Master Bronson Ko has cracked the code, building what he calls "the Apple of martial arts studios" – premium facilities with prices to match and waiting lists of eager families.

Perhaps most compelling is Master Ko's insight that higher prices create deeper commitment. "When you pay more for something, you actually become more committed to it," he notes. Parents who invest substantially ensure their children attend consistently, leading to better results, which justifies the premium pricing. It's a virtuous cycle that benefits everyone: students receive transformative training, parents see tangible results, instructors earn better compensation, and the school thrives financially.

🎙️ Podcast Show Notes: “Meeting the Master: Bronson Ko Joins ASA Summit 2025”

His presence, insight, and energy are next-level, and we’re thrilled to announce that he’ll be joining us as a featured speaker at the ASA Summit 2025, happening October 3–4 in Las Vegas! 🇺🇸🥋

🎟️ Don’t miss your chance to be part of it—register now at www.ASAmartialarts.com and lock in your spot for the most electrifying martial arts business summit of the year.

Let’s go! 💥




Dynamics World – A one‑stop martial arts supplier offering uniforms, belts, gear, mats, and custom designs, delivering great products, great prices, and great service to martial arts school owners.

https://store.dynamicsworld.com/

Contact Black Belt Banter

  • Email us at jimmyhong@blackbeltbanter.com
  • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ASAmartialarts

Please rate and review our podcast! Thanks for listening!

Speaker 1:

In this week's episode, we'll discuss the topic the secret behind the highest tuition in America. Welcome to Black Belt Banter, the best podcast to help your martial arts school increase in profits and generate substantial revenue. I'm Jimmy Hong and my co-host is Master Chan Lee. We are joined by Master Bronson Ko, a second-generation martial artist turned visionary entrepreneur. He opened his first Taekwondo school at just 23 and now leads three premium locations, including two custom-built state-of-the-art facilities which he owns. One spans 8,000 square feet and the other 5,000 square feet, with programs ranging from $200 to $400 per month and a team of 35 plus employees. Master Ko's mission is bold to build the apple of martial arts studios. He is focused on scaling his brand, developing leaders and delivering a world-class experience that redefines excellence in our industry. Master Lee, master Ko, welcome to the show. Very excited to have both of you on the podcast today. Let's dive right in. 400 a month for martial arts classes that's crazy impressive. What makes that price point work, masako?

Speaker 2:

Well, my first response to that is that's what we all should be doing, because that's how much I believe in the power of martial arts, especially with kids, with youth. And also this is based on what I've experienced, since I've been doing this since I was three. But our rates actually will start lower. So we start at around $230 to $250 a month, and then we have different programs after that. So, for example, black Belt Club is $400. And then we kind of incrementally go up from there. So it's about 30 more for the next program. And then our mentorship program is for our students who have aspirations of becoming instructors with us, and that'll be around 430. My goal is our last program, which is our leadership program, is going to be 500. So we're kind of working on that right now.

Speaker 3:

So obviously I tell people, no one pays $100 a month just to learn how to kick and punch. But if you go something beyond that, that there's a vision and there's something that goes beyond the kicking and punching and so forth, and it sounds like you've built a culture of people that go, I'm not just learning how to kick and punch, I'm learning how to become a better human being. So what are elements in your program? Do you kind of like emphasize Because you already you kind of said leadership a little bit, mentorship, things like that what are some of the unique things that you are offering with your students?

Speaker 2:

Well, you hit it on the head. Leadership is a huge passion of mine and that's something that we really focus on. First, helping our students learn how to lead themselves. I mean, it's just the basic, simple, positive habits instilled in their life Increasing discipline, learning how to care for themselves, make their bed, all those different things. And then the second is learning how to lead other people. I I think we achieve this pretty well just by how we teach. I've always kind of had a knack for teaching, even since when I first started. Actually, when I first started, it was pretty rough, but then I started learning what was the more effective way of teaching, and it wasn't necessarily based on how I was taught which you probably can relate to this which was the um, do what I say, or do knuckle pushups, or I'm going to take a stick and hit your legs.

Speaker 3:

We call that the memory stick.

Speaker 2:

Actually my, my father, the memory stick, uh, my father, the memory stick. My father was on a podcast. You can watch that. He shares all of those experiences.

Speaker 2:

But it just doesn't work today, like that method doesn't work, and you're going to have an empty school. So I kind of coined the way we teach by calling that the mentor method. So we use a lot of intrinsic motivation. We use a lot of conversation-based teaching, less of the fear-based. I think a little bit of fear is necessary and healthy because that instills respect, but that shouldn't be the only motivation.

Speaker 2:

So the leadership aspect is ingrained in all of our programs and one of the big things that we're always trying to focus on is helping these students learn how to clearly communicate effectively with their verbal communication, because they're really good using their thumbs on their phone right or typing on a computer.

Speaker 2:

But if you just talk to a random child today, it's hard for them to look at you in the eyes and actually speak clearly and loud enough. It's crazy. So that is, I think, where a lot of our parents see the value is that we really focus on that, because they see that that's going to help their child gain an edge over their peers and the competition. The other is just the culture that we're trying to really build here with the old school principles, I think, with a lot of the things come that have come out, you know, whether it be ufc and mma and all these other things, and even sport taco no right was sparring and wearing these giant baggy uniforms, and there's no more kind of the tradition. We are keeping that and I think people are now starting to realize how valuable that is and through that culture is how they naturally become better leaders.

Speaker 3:

That is quite remarkable, and I think you've kind of made that formula and flipped it on its head. I mean, it's one of those things where I remember, early in my career, I said well, look, I'm gonna have to teach different stuff. I'm gonna teach Hapkido, I'm gonna teach weapons, I'm gonna teach nunchucks, I'm gonna teach blow darts, ninja, throwing stars, I'll learn how to scale a wall and I'll do jujitsu and, for good measure, we'll do gymnastics right. So you go, I'm going to add all these value added programs and and, and maybe in the morning we'll do yoga and we'll add all these value added programs and that will that will provide tremendous value.

Speaker 3:

And when I first talked to you, you were like so I was like what else do you teach? Do you teach jujitsu? Do you teach whatever? And you're like, no, just taekwondo. And I was like what? You don't teach any other martial arts? No, just strictly taekwondo. And it was refreshing and and and then I really kind of you know, like you just told us, it was just a dive deeper that what makes martial arts special is the character, development aspects, and you have kind of hit that in the head. And if people are listening to this, I want them to understand. Like you didn't go well here, let me make a new business system where I can upgrade people and and they will pay me, because that's you know. I just have it on a piece of paper. It says $400 a month. You are providing a tremendous amount of value where parents don't even blink twice about doing it, and so and so well, can I just say at this point in my, when I was younger, it was all about budget.

Speaker 1:

I was on a cause. I wasn't making a lot of money when I was younger, so it was all about budget, whatever price. But now, at this point in my life, with kids, with my wife, with family, I question anything that's cheap. If it's cheap, I'm like is this product any good? I'm already thinking, and still this is not a great product. I don't think I even want it.

Speaker 1:

But when there's something expensive, like Apple phones or computers or Macs or whatever, to other programs and products that are higher priced than other competitors, I automatically assume oh wait a minute, this company must be better, without even knowing about the company. I just assume that because through 50 years of being on this earth I have learned cheaper is better, not every time, but more often than not is not better than the quality stuff that I could buy more expensive now and that I could use better use for and have a longer shelf life. And from kids' activities to sports to whatever the cheaper brand I don't even want to be associated with because I know programs that offer highest tuition. They really focus on the quality of their product and their teaching. So to that, masterco. I mean, I definitely understand the mindset and you're absolutely right. Us as an industry needs to create that kind of value.

Speaker 2:

Yes, you hit it right in the head. There's two things you said. First was that automatic reaction to perception of value when you hear the price is low. We are all like that. That's just the way it is. That's just the human condition. We all think like this. And then the second thing you said was you don't want to be associated with a cheap brand. That in itself is what I think all martial arts school owners really need to pay attention to.

Speaker 2:

And this goes into the next thing I haven't mentioned with charging higher rates is you got to pay attention to the details, because all those little details all add up to perception of value and, most importantly, it's going to cause your customer to say, oh, that's me, I want to aspire to be like that, or that is not me. So, for example, if you go into an average martial arts studio, you tend to see some clutter, you tend to smell some stinky feet, like the mats haven't been scrubbed in weeks, right? All those little things all play into that perception of value. And, most importantly, do I want to identify with this brand? Is this who I want to be? If not, then not only are they not going to pay the high rate, they're also going to be walking out the door, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 3:

So can you give me a little bit of? Because I saw your first school. I remember way back when I was like that's a really beautiful school. And then your second one, even better. Where do you, where do you pull your inspiration? And you own all the buildings that you're in.

Speaker 2:

So we own two. We just opened our third one in january, and that is a got it, got it, got it did you hire it to your designer or did you design it yourself?

Speaker 2:

last one. I did the last one, I did the first one. I kind of worked alongside with the architect. So when you're building right, you have the architect, who kind of more is focused on the important aspects of the structure right, making sure nobody dies, but then on top of that maybe you'll have a designer who makes it look good. So then I kind of played that role as a designer for the first two buildings and then last one. I wanted to get somebody else who really knew what they were doing and pick their brain. But I always have a lot of say in this because I know what I want.

Speaker 2:

This is something that I've always had a knack for, even when I was younger. I could just see things that I think look good. My mother is a graph designer. I do. I've created our logo, I do a lot of our graph design. That's something that I've always had a passion for. I just I hate to say it, hopefully it doesn't come across as arrogant I just know it looks good. So that's kind of where the inspiration comes from oh no, I know exactly what you mean.

Speaker 1:

my wife is a professional interior designer and and she could see an empty room and then visualize how that room needs to be, or or a floor plan to a house, and know, without even just know in our head, that, oh, the the best conducive floor plan to today's modern family living needs to be this way, that way, I look at an empty room and and you, unless you show me in a 3D like AutoCAD graphic model, I wouldn't have a clue of what you're talking about. But creatives and artists and designers like yourself and my wife I mean I understand firsthand experience oh, we should do this, this this way, to a point where I don't even, I can't even try to grasp to see it until after it's done.

Speaker 2:

So that's absolutely true, and I think I see it.

Speaker 3:

I was going to say your price point, like when you say that's what you charge, it matches. You know what I mean. You don't look at it and go yeah, I bet it's like $50 a month. Did it break $100? That doesn't come into your, you walk in and you, you see it and you go yeah, this is gonna, it's gonna cost us, right? It's like walking into a mercedes dealership as opposed to going to, uh, you know, hyundai or something like that, or I mean have you guys been coming up, coming up hyundai.

Speaker 1:

You can't say hyundai anymore okay, I'm sorry, like tesla.

Speaker 3:

Oh wait, you guys both drive teslas, sorry no, no, no, come on tesla's.

Speaker 1:

Tesla's not bad, but we don't need to get quality the car have you been into a rivian dealers?

Speaker 2:

I had a rivian I had a rivian for over a year, yeah that's.

Speaker 1:

That's that's crazy. They get it, they do get it, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but I think it's important to add also why I pursue the higher rates. I just want to clarify what's most important to me, which is I want to see a positive change in the child. I'm not in this business just to make money. I'm not in this business to try to take as much money as I can from the parent. I'm not in that for this. There's other ways to make more money, right? So, in order for you to actually get a permanent change in the child, what do you need from the parent? Commitment, fully committed. If they're just here just for an activity or they're just coming month to month or whatever, or, more importantly, if they just see this like Planet Fitness, where it's like $10 a month and they can just cancel whenever they want because it doesn't hurt, then we're not going to get that long lasting, permanent change.

Speaker 2:

So what happens? When you pay more for something, you actually become more committed to it. Again, if you're paying $10 a month for Planet Fitness, you'll miss. If you're paying $500 a month for some luxury gym, I bet you're going to be making a little bit more. You're not missing, because every time you miss that's going to be hurting your pocket. So that's the overarching strategy goal that I have is I want the parents to be committed, and the only way that we can have universal commitment is with your wallet. You can say everything you want. You can do anything you want. You can say just say it. But most important is when you put your hard-earned money on the table.

Speaker 3:

That's when you show that you're committed is when you put your hard-earned money on the table. That's when you show that you're committed. So, master Co, I just have a question, because I've known you for a while Like I think we've known each other close to 20 years now. I've seen this growth in you because 20 years ago you were just another school owner. You're like your average school owner 150 bucks a month, 140 bucks a month. What happened? What happened in the last 20 years? What was the genesis of you know what? I'm going to charge more. I'm going to create more change Because I think you and I have been to a lot of our industry meetings.

Speaker 3:

That's where we usually met and we'd go and we're like same old stuff, we'd listen to it and whatever. And I think where you and I are aligned is it's not about the business systems, it's about creating the real value on the mat and and you've done that in spades to an incredible level. So just kind of get me through that journey what? What was the shift? Cause I'm sure there's a lot of people on this podcast. They can't even fathom like getting over 200 bucks or 250 or 300. You're not at this amount of 400 because you can put it on a piece of paper and charge it. But if you don't believe in that dollar amount, you're not going to get it.

Speaker 3:

So how did you get into this extraordinary amount of confidence within yourself to say, hey, this is what I'm going to charge, this is what I feel I'm worth, and if that I bet you're in your mind you're like, no, I'm undercharging, even at 400 bucks. I bet that's what you feel a little bit. Tell me that psychology and philosophy that you got into that point.

Speaker 2:

First and foremost, it's the habit of reading, just reading business books as many as possible. I've read so many. I mean, if you look on my wall I've got tons it's just always having that sponge for a mind, always searching for there's got to be a better way, there's got to be a better way. And then, most importantly, how do I serve my students in a better way? How can we get more results? How do we make this better? And then also just visiting businesses or even studios. I used to go and visit studios all the time and just finding little things from a different perspective, outside of the typical kind of Taekwondo dojang perspective which was instilled into me from my father, which is hard to get rid of, right, and I remember I used to ask him like you should charge more? He'd go oh no, they're not going to pay, that they won't pay, that they're going to quit, and having to kind of remove that stigma by looking outside of the industry. But, most importantly, having this pursuit of I want to charge, or this idea I want to charge $500 a month, how can I make it worth it to the parent? And then, starting from there, what do they want? What are they looking for, because when the pain is great enough, then the amount now becomes irrelevant. If you have, you know, heaven forbid. Let's say there's something wrong with your child, you have to take them to the hospital. You'll pay whatever, doesn't matter. Now, that's an extreme example. But then it's getting to know your child. You have to take them to the hospital, you'll pay whatever, it doesn't matter. Now, that's an extreme example. But then it's getting to know your students, your parents, and then being the best option and, most importantly, following through with delivering that solution to the parent.

Speaker 2:

But this is not an easy process. This is where people think that it's easy. It's not easy and there's no shortcuts. You've got to train yourself, you've got to really know your stuff. And the big thing for us is how do you know that you can teach well? Just because that you're a fifth on that doesn't matter. You could be a white belt in teaching. So first is are you good at teaching or is are your instructors good at teaching? Cause that's our product, right? Second, curriculum I've been working on our curriculum for 20 years and we do teach a little bit of jujitsu, a little boxing now, just cause I want practical self-defense. But that's 20%. 80% of us poomsae, like we literally just focus on poomsae, which a lot of people think is crazy because they think it's so boring. We don't do any competition, none of that stuff. But to answer your question, a lot of reading, a lot of looking outside of my own little studio. I used to hear Bill.

Speaker 3:

Clark. Yeah, Master Clark.

Speaker 2:

Back in the day he had I don't know 30 or 40 locations, I used to think, wow, how does that even happen? Or some of these people saying, oh, we charged $300 a month. It was like mind blown. And now I look back and I think that's how they do it and I think I can do a little bit better.

Speaker 3:

So for people listening on the podcast, are there any books like here are the three surefire books that you should get started? Because we have people that are coming to our ASSA summit that you know they're on the verge. Probably in the next six to eight months they're going to close or they're thinking about a career change and, as we have friends that are also doing super well, what would you say to them? Say, here, here are the, here are the three books, or something that is going to get me started on my journey?

Speaker 1:

If you're going to advise Master Chan Lee, you could only give him one book recommendation, because he's not going to get past the one to three.

Speaker 3:

My strategy is what book did you read? Then I go okay, what was the main point of that book?

Speaker 2:

or you just go to chat gpt and say tell me the five bullet points right, exactly, exactly he would, he would, he would call me and say hey, what was that book about?

Speaker 1:

okay, and then he would use that as his way of reading the book. I got, got books back here.

Speaker 2:

Honestly, there's so many I mean the one you're always going to hear for new business entrepreneurs, the first one is. E-myth.

Speaker 3:

Michael Gerber.

Speaker 2:

Right, it's all about working on your business and not in it. The second one oh my goodness, this is hard for me. I would say that really stands out. This is not even really about business, it's more about personal development. It's called the power of habit.

Speaker 2:

This one changed me big time and it just goes through like how do you create habits? Because, think about it, discipline is a myth. You only have habits, you only have routines. So if you can instill, for example, reading, because I listen to books, I don't read them. I listen to them when I'm driving, every single day. I don't listen to music. Think about if you compound that over years, you're going to become a different person, I would say. Lastly, if you really want to take your business to a different level and and really try to be different, there's a book that came out recently called unreasonable hospitality. That one was really good, really good. It was written by a guy who ran a three-star Michelin restaurant and he talks about all these little things that they do to charge $100 for an appetizer. I mean, people aren't walking out without spending at least $1,000 for a meal there. So those are the three. If anybody wants to reach out, I can give you more?

Speaker 3:

That's a great start. I think that's one of the like. When we get to a SA or these meetings, that's one of the things that everybody goes. What are you more? That's a great start. I think that's one of the like. When we get to a saw or these meetings, that's one of the things that everybody goes what are you reading, what's the latest thing you're up to? And and everybody's just like writing down book recommendations. And I don't know if this works, but it's the Star Trek manual to Kirk Fu, so I don't know. It's changed my life so, but anyway, Well, I haven't.

Speaker 3:

Oh, okay, I mean you know Star Trek's a major franchise, so now you have a little insight into my brain.

Speaker 1:

So just to kind of re I hope no one's making fun of Star Trek, because that's literally my favorite show. I'm just saying, pastor Chan.

Speaker 3:

I'm just saying but you know what, you know some of the parents. So just to tell you, like when you make a Star Trek reference or a Star Wars reference and they go, yes, sir, and I'm like, oh okay, these are the type of people that are training with us and I'm one of them, and Harry Potter too, that's another. It's those people that get into those genres and so forth. It is definitely a cult. It is definitely a cult.

Speaker 3:

So I'm assuming, if you, if we're going over programs, you have your basic program right At 200, some dollars, $259 or $249. And then on your two years, when do you go into an upgrade? Do you do that within a year or two years to have them abject some change? I'm sure you have a staff meeting and you talk to your staff and saying, okay, who's stepped up to the plate a little bit here in terms of doing that, because I tell my staff it doesn't matter what you say in the office If the parents don't see the a change in this kid. He's not cleaning his room, he's not standing straighter, he's not loud, he's still shy, he can't look you in the eye when you shake his hand and you're like, okay, time to upgrade. It's $400 a month now Forget about it. Forget about it and people don't realize that upgrade is actually happening on the floor. You got to promise that, right, so what's your timing on that? Can you give us some insight on your process a little bit?

Speaker 2:

Yes. So they'll start off with kind of a three-month deal, three-month program at least, and then I'll get into the next belt. So we do our belt assessments every three months. We call it an assessment, by the way, we got rid of, replaced with from a test, because a test you can fail right. So now, instead of saying it's a test that they could fail, because we're not failing people at these events publicly, because that's not productive, so we call them assessments. So, anyways, we get them to the next belt or have them enroll and then at that point, if we feel like maybe they're going to be a good fit for the next program, which is Black Book Club, then we will send them an invitation. And we do this with a handwritten note that we'll send out via snail mail and they'll get it. But we also talk about it at the belt assessment Check your mail and if we feel like that you would be a good fit, then you'll get an invitation. And this is powerful, because then we also say if you don't get one, didn't get one, then reach out and we can tell you how you can get it next time. Nice, so when you have this sense of scarcity, right, when it's an exclusive thing. That's when things start changing. But you have to first prove it to them that you are going to deliver on your promise. I know, master Lee, you like Toyota, you like Lexus, and a lot of people do Talk about cult. Toyota's a cult, and the reason why is people know they're going to deliver longevity and quality, like they know because they've proved it over the years. That is what we're always trying to do in that first three to six months. So basically, we'll repeat this process.

Speaker 2:

We call it the invite only process and we look at two things. We look at their attendance, because if they're not coming consistently, it doesn't matter. If you invite them, they're still not going to be a right fit because they're not even fully vested into your program anyways. So it's almost like don't show your cards too early. You got to hold them back and say yeah, you're not ready. Second is are they following the rules? Because the way our programs are divided is not just some you know name, oh, and a uniform. Now you get a blue uniform and then now you're considered Black Book Club. You're going to be doing the exact same thing. That, to me, is lying and I cannot operate like that. So what I did was I divided our curriculum up into three levels Beginner, kind of a beginner basic kind of curriculum, and then intermediate and then advanced. And we have this rotating curriculum. So now when they join Black Book Club, they're going to be doing something more advanced. Thus, if their behavior is not where it needs to be, they're not going to be able to keep up in the more advanced curriculum. So if we're doing more advanced, pumze and they're going to ruin the experience for the other students who want to be there and they're behaving so that's the second requirement. So we'll send those invitations out, we'll schedule a conference, talk to them about it and then the commitment is a minimum one year, and that's when they're going to be essentially paying almost double than what they were paying before. It's crazy for me still to watch. These parents are all in. They're like yep, we're in. I'm like you're going to double your payment. So that's amazing. I feel so honored that you're going to do that.

Speaker 2:

The next program is going to be performance, which is our gray uniform, and this is where it goes up to about 430. Same process, same requirement. First, are you coming to class consistently? Now, instead of behavior, it's more about do we feel like we can push them to the next level, for example, teaching them a more advanced PUMSE, more advanced curriculum, for example for our self-defense, our safety skills, instead of just doing stand-up, we'll take them down and then we'll learn and teach them how to submit, because that in itself can be dangerous. We can't have students who are still working on behavior be trusted with those very potentially dangerous moves. So then we repeat that process and then, if they feel like it's a good fit, then they'll enroll in that one and then finally, once they are 13, we'll also do the same process for our leadership program, which is the black uniform, same uniform I wear, everybody wears the same uniform at that level, and at that time we're going to be training them to become an instructor, learning how to assist first and then ultimately learning how to lead a class.

Speaker 2:

The thing I'd like to do, moving forward this is what I'm working on now is how do we develop that leadership program? So then the parents are going to go. If it's 500 bucks a month, that's worth it. And I'm thinking we do things like have maybe monthly coaching sessions where we ask the student hey, how's your grades, how's it going in school with your social situation? Are you dealing with any bullying, all that type of stuff? Think about, as a parent, if you have a mentor mentoring your child. I think you'd pay a lot for that, especially if they can lean on having that reinforcement or that confidence in a different area. So that's kind of where we're at now, but the end goal for us is keep them through high school to the graduation and hopefully we find some future, come out and and well, I don't.

Speaker 3:

I was gonna ask you. I mean, I'm gonna go, I was, I was gonna ask you. I am sure that you found that some of your black belts over the years have done some pretty remarkable stuff. Can you tell us some of the big victories of some of your black belts, some of your products? Right? I mean, at the end of the day, that's the product, right, it's our student, so can you?

Speaker 2:

We got engineers, many doctors, engineers. One guy he got a PhD in mathematics. I mean, these are nerdy kids, which is our people. I love the nerdy kids. I don't want the athletic kids. These are the quiet, introverted ones. Those are our people and we take them, help them, like, guide them on how to communicate, how to be a leader, like how to have some confidence, and then they end up going off and making a lot more money than I do. But ultimately you're right, it's, the result is there and we've seen it over and over and over again. So, going back to that original, that other question, it was just how, where did you get the confidence? It's because I've seen the results. We've I've seen the results. That's how I can easily talk about this stuff and easily feel confident.

Speaker 3:

A hundred percent.

Speaker 1:

Well, I know, okay, so it might be a sticker shock for majority of school owners 400-plus tuition. But honestly, like I'm a soccer dad, I have a 12-year-old playing competitive soccer. I pay just the club fees, not including other fees associated. I pay $4,000 a year. That's $300. And what? $330, $350 a month without even batting an eye, you know right. So that, honestly, a 400, 450, 500 tuition for what taekwondo does, which does far more than than a soccer athlete, is, if you really think about it, it's not that unheard of, it shouldn't be. But as you said, masterco, the whole industry has this fixed mindset of 150, 180, 190 that we don't even contemplate about. Hey, our program is worth much more than soccer and golf and water polo. We do so much more than these other sports that we should be charging what we need to be charging, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Here's my theory. This all started, I think, bless our fathers, but it started with them, I mean, because of how they were raised, like my father was raised post-Korean War, right, so it was really, really poor. So what has happened and I've actually experienced this is the race to the bottom oh, they charge you $150? We do $140. And then they hear, oh, they're going to do $140? No, we do $130. And then you keep going down, and down and down and that becomes the standard and it pulls the whole industry down, because we have this bidding war when in reality you just stick to your rate and then, if it's not a fit, then move on, let them go where they're going to have to.

Speaker 3:

That is so funny, it's so true. I mean that's, you're like how much did they charge? Do you remember these calls Before caller ID? You're like, bring out yellow pages. You call those three schools, hi.

Speaker 2:

I'm interested in lessons.

Speaker 3:

Dad, they charge $129 a month. Okay, we go 109. You're laughing because you all did it, so don't even yeah, we all did it right as kids. We're like okay, dad, oh yeah, we all did it right as kids we're like okay, dad, oh yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well, Masterco, how do you handle objections from potential parents who says, hey, your tuition is too high. I know other schools in the area is less than that. What is your overcoming objections to that?

Speaker 2:

Well, honestly, I don't do any of ourselves now. But if I were, then I would first ask why did you come here in the first place? And I always revisit the pain point. So, for example, well, they might say he needs more discipline. Okay, well, how much is that worth to you? How much is it worth for your child to do what they were told the first time at home? Would that save you time at home? Would that save you emotional distress? How much is that worth to you? And they're like no, I can see that.

Speaker 2:

Well, to me, this is that we're not charging enough. I mean, I know for me, if I could pay X amount of dollars for my daughter to not back talk as much, I will be forking that out. But it goes back to revisiting their pain point. Now you might get people coming in. They're just looking for something fun. With those people, the goal is to uncover a potential pain point they didn't know about and you start asking questions how is she at home, how is he at school, all those things. But then, if it just comes down oh, we're just looking for something fun I would say you know what? Maybe we're not a fit, maybe this is not the right place for you. I know down the street they're a little bit less. You should go check them out. They might be a better fit because ultimately, genuinely, I just want you to be happy.

Speaker 1:

Well, I could honestly say there's not going to be any amount for my nine-year-old daughter to stop backtalking me, because I tried it and that has no bearing. She will backtalk me all day, all week.

Speaker 2:

Even if you give her a hundred bucks.

Speaker 1:

When I gave her a hundred. She backtalks more because she's like oh, I'm getting a hundred out of this, I should be doing more of this, so there's no amount of money, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Well, I want to thank you for coming on our podcast and sharing your insights and I know you've been very busy in the last 20 years and we've we've passed ships in the wind in different events and things and and so forth, but I do know we have a commonality that we love martial arts and we know the power of what we do can change a course of a child's life, and you are. You are a representative of that and to me, the focus of today's podcast is that be a better teacher and be a better influencer to these kids to have them become better citizens. And the money will always be there, absolutely so. Can you give us a quick preview of I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1:

I'm sorry to say, by the way. By the way, masterco is going to be one of our speakers at our ASA, marshall Arts Summit 2025 in Las Vegas this year in October. So I just wanted our audience and listeners to know that you guys could see him in person, and this is exactly the topic that Masterco is going to be discussing in more detail. So we want to invite everybody out here to meet Master Koh in person, really pick his brain, and we're going to raise our whole industry up. So I just want to let our audience know about that. Well, I was going to say he was going to be there.

Speaker 3:

And I think the other cool thing about Asah and all our events is that there's a lot of interaction with our speakers. There are a lot of networking. We're going out, we're going to I know some people are playing golf and we have some people that are also going to eat dinner together at some of the different events, and then we have a mixer going on on Friday night too. So plenty of opportunities. I think sometimes you will learn more in the hallways, as they say, of these events because you get a chance to kind of ask a specific question and so forth. And it's been quite remarkable to see your incredible success in your town and it's quite inspiring, and I think that's one of the reasons I reached out to you to say, hey, you've got to inspire others to be at their best.

Speaker 1:

Thank, you, sir. Well, one final question, masako, talking about being in town, you're in the heartland of America. I'm in West Coast, southern California. Is there any for coastal school owners versus and Master Lee is Midwest as well any difference in terms of being in the heartland versus anywhere else? Is there advantage, disadvantage, or does it not matter?

Speaker 2:

That's a good question. I would say the feel of a city is always going to be a little bit different. But you know, master Lee, and I know the kind of Midwestern feel, the Midwestern people, the mindset. So I love the Midwest mindset. People are very nice, but I think it just depends on the pockets too right. You can go into different areas in your city and they're all different. For example, all three of our locations, the demographics, or at least the people, are just different. It's weird. It's only 15, 20 minutes away from each other, but with people in California I don't know what to say about that, because we're crazy out here, we're crazy.

Speaker 2:

You said it. You said it. I know Elk Owner is there, but for me it's just it would be a little different to try to run a studio there. But who knows, I think.

Speaker 3:

But I would have to say I just I, I kind of disagree because I think being in charging the amount that you're charging in the midwest, considering how conservative the people in the midwest are and how skeptical midwesterners are, very skeptical about things and and you kind of like, blow that theory out of the water because you produce. So I think if you use that formula, whether that be in New York or whether you do that on the East Coast or the West Coast, as long as you are producing what you're saying you're going to do, then people will pay. In spades. I have a friend who he does college consulting. To employ him for the year is $12,000 a year, that's a thousand bucks a month. And if you want your kid to get to Harvard or Yale or any of the IVs or whatever, you've got to follow his formula and you'll do it and so forth. And parents like he has a waiting list and he's on the West coast but he's produced the result, so people don't say boo. So if you follow his formula, you have a great shot of getting into these places. And I feel that's the same with with Dojang.

Speaker 3:

If you, like you said, if you are producing, and part of your enrollment conference was all about like how is he at home? Is he cleaning up? And if you're not, then you can't. If you're not showing that level of commitment at home, you're not getting to my next program, as opposed to people like we will make him better pay now it doesn't. It doesn't matter what you say in the office, and I think you've really hammered that point home and people think, oh yeah, Master Cole must just be a good business guy. No, he's a brilliant teacher. They're missing the point in terms of doing that. So you know, it always boggles my mind and there's a lot of haters out there too. Anytime someone's doing successful, they're like that dude, sold out, that dude.

Speaker 2:

Oh, my goodness, I've heard that many times with all my competitors. So my father is still in the he, he lives here, and they talk to him on the golf course and they're like, oh, bronston, he, he, just businessman, he, good businessman, right.

Speaker 1:

and I'm like, okay, I guess so I guess that's the way it is well, none of those people are going to come to asa because they're not allowed to, because asA is going to be a positive and reinforcement of everything that we're doing. You know, let's conclude there. Master Chan Lee, Master Bronson Ko, thank you for your time being on the podcast and to our listeners there you have it An inside look at what it takes to build a premium martial arts brand right from the heartland. From bold pricing to visionary leadership. Master Ko and Master Chan Lee are clearly setting a new standard in our industry. I hope you got as much out of this show as I did. If you're inspired to rethink what's possible in your business, this episode was a masterclass in doing just that. Thanks for tuning in and we'll catch you on the next one.